A Tale of Two Churches
Preface: I realize that most of my readers are not Christians. I think this is interesting enough, even if you believe something completely different. Why? Because it is a real life example that reminds us that groups and people are not monolithic, that people who believe the same basic things sometimes choose to live out those beliefs in very different ways. If you don’t find that interesting, please feel free to ignore the post.
I just moved back to the United States after spending most of the last seven years in another country. Returning to the land of my birth has been an interesting experience, as I am seeing things from a new and wider perspective. This was especially evident over the last two weeks as I visited two churches in my new neighborhood.
A week ago, I visited a large Christian church. It is a part of a denomination that I grew up in and that I was a part of for most of the last 30 years. I thought I knew what to expect. Most of what I saw stayed within those expectations, but there were a few observations that surprised me. Here are my thoughts.
I walked in to an auditorium filled with about 4 or 5 hundred people from many different ethnic groups. Most were talking quietly with friends as they waited for things to begin. Few said anything to me, and even then it was a quick, “Hello,†and a “Glad you are here,†while running long to the next person entering the door.
A glance around the room informed me very quickly that I was under dressed as I had chosen to wear a nice, clean pair of jeans and a simple T-shirt. All the rest of my clothes are still in transit, as I have moved recently, so I wore the best I had available, but it was out of place.
I noticed a few sidelong, suspicious glances tossed my way and thought that was odd, until I realized I was the only male in the room with long hair. Most men had military-acceptable hair styles, with hair that was off of the collar and above the ears. That wouldn’t bother me, except that I got the feeling that I didn’t look right for the setting. Bummer, two strikes right off the bat.
Quietly, I sat down near the back, hoping not to be intrusive and just observe. The music was an eclectic mix of traditional styles, mainly 1950s Southern Gospel, old hymns, some African-American Gospel mixed in, and one newer “chorus.†I suppose each regular attendee of the church heard at least one song that touched them. I thought that was a respectful way to avoid the common church arguments over traditional versus modern musical styles. At the same time, all of the songs and musical styles came from one main segment of society—people who grew up in a church. I did not hear a single song that would have sounded in place on any radio station other than one dedicated solely to Christian or Gospel styles.
The people in the meeting seemed sincere, and looked like they were genuinely happy to be where they were. There was one moment, during the announcement time, when they asked all visitors to raise their hands. That made me a bit uncomfortable, as I already felt like a fish out of water from my original entry into the building, but I complied. I felt a lot of eyes staring at me with a mixture of reserved distance, compassion, and a “oh, I hope that poor boy finds help today and can get fixed†look. One man, in the row in front of me, took the time to write a little note on a piece of scrap paper with the time and day of the next meeting of the church’s young adult group, it was a volleyball game.
I had the feeling that if I would just conform to the standards of attire, belief, and culture in this church, that I would be acceptable. In fact, it seemed that everyone would be very welcoming of a change in my life. “Any middle class, Christian sub-culture embracing, political conservative who looks like us is welcome.â€
The pastor got up to speak, and he talked about the church’s history and future plans to build a new building out in the suburbs and move the church from its current location in the middle of town. He repeatedly explained that this was a special Sunday meeting and that he didn’t usually talk about building plans, money, and that sort of thing. Actually, I found it interesting. The denomination won’t have a church in the part of town that they will be moving from once the project is complete, but they will have an amazing and large complex/campus of buildings in their new location.
The pastor did take some time out in the proceedings to talk against some other groups of Christians in town who are doing things like having a “porn Sunday.†He didn’t describe what that meant, but he implied very strongly it must be a bad thing and, “Praise God, we will never do anything like that here.â€
I was intrigued. I had never heard of a church having anything to do with porn, so I did some searching on Google. I found a newspaper article from the same city describing the efforts of another church to try to lovingly help men in their congregation to break their addiction to internet porn, beginning with an open discussion at a meeting to define addiction to porn and discuss some of the ways it can harm relationships in a marriage. That didn’t sound so bad. Nowhere in the local newspaper was there any mention of the church in question supporting anything that I have ever known the Bible to reject. Hmm.
The next Sunday, I decided to check out a newer church, one that is meeting in building they rent one evening a week. The official doctrinal statement of this new church was nearly identical to that of the first church I mentioned, at least according to the two churches’ websites.
I walked in to the second church wearing the same basic outfit as I did the first one. To my astonishment, at least 2/3 of the people were dressed the same way, including the pastor. There were others who were wearing more formal attire, but no one seemed to care either way. I was greeted warmly by at least 15 people, many of whom stood near me to shoot the breeze for several minutes. As I looked around, I saw people with very traditional hair and dress styles, others who looked like me, and still others with tattoos and piercings. It was a real cross section of the part of town they met in (just a few miles from the first church). There wasn’t as much racial diversity, though, but the church is much smaller. There were maybe 60 people there.
The pastor started the meeting by talking about why the church exists and who it is for. Basically, he said that his religious beliefs are important, but that the cultural bits of American Christianity are trivial. Anyone from any background, political bent, style of dress, economic status, level of education, age or ethnicity was welcome. The goal of the church is to engage the existing culture of the city in a conversation, a dialogue which would listen respectfully and genuinely while attempting to present the beliefs of the church in as clear of a manner as possible to anyone interested. The church exists to be a positive force, giving hope, love, and acceptance to others while working on behalf of others, whether they share the same beliefs or not, but hoping that some will be interested and will give their beliefs a listen and genuine consideration.
I felt this was a value held by all of the people I met before and after the meeting. At the first church, there is a nursery provided, so that adults will not be disturbed by kids during the service. At the second, there is a nursery for kids and parents who are interested in using it, but kids are openly welcome in the meeting, even if they begin to act like kids and get a little squirmy or noisy. The statement was that everyone is welcome, and I watched as some kids acted their age. Occasionally a word or sentence was difficult to hear, but not one person looked over with a dirty look or disdain, while several looked over with compassion or knowing smiles.
As the meeting continued, the pastor mentioned that the church is actively looking for areas of social aid and justice to get involved in as a group, ways for the church to help people who are in need, feeding the hungry, clothing the poor, building houses for the homeless, and so on. He said the church would like to partner with groups already doing these things, even if others who are involved are not Christians. Why? So that people who are in need are helped. The idea is to be a real part of the community, coming alongside the community and helping where help is needed. Will it grow the church, in numbers or in finances? Maybe, and maybe not. The goal is for the church to have a Christ-like reputation of being loving, kind, generous, and open to having respectful relationships and dialogue, while at the same time being very clear about what the church believes and not compromising those beliefs within the church itself.
So, there we have it. A picture of two churches, each with the same basic statement of faith on paper, but with very different atmospheres. Guess which one I am thinking of visiting again sometime?
I would definitely consider the second church. If we can’t engage the real community instead of the Christian subculture, we have missed the point of Jesus altogether.
I haven’t got anything interesting to add to this, but I found this very interesting.
I’m more or less an atheist/agnostic (I’m aware they’re different, but my views are a little mixed) but I found this story surprisingly insightful. The second church sounds like something I could get behind, at least in their goals and objectives.
Um… the second?
What a church believes is important, but I think how they live their beliefs is much more so.
Very interesting comments. It really made me think about how our church operates and how I greet people. You didn’t mention the music at the second church - maybe it’s a shallow question, but what was it like?
I’m glad you shared your experience, perhaps others from your denomination would be interested to read/hear about your experience as well…?
Welcome to the Great Dis-Illusioned! Seriously, though, there is a movement throughout the Body of Christ to get real, ditch the man-made religion, and enjoy real fellowship. I suggest the Podcasts of Wayne and Brad at http://www.thegodjourney.com, Frank Viola’s books: Pagan Christianity (Very interesting!) and Reimagining Church. And the awesome story: http://www.jakecolsen.com/Jakespreads.pdf.
The first church you visited sounds a lot like my old church. I had went there since I was an infant, and my wife and I stopped going about 3-4 years ago. I love the church and really loved the people, but when they started adding bylaws about dress. Such as no shorts or mini skirts I thought that was a little much. I feel that there are some things that we just don’t need to be told. The message is the most important thing, not how your dressed. The message comes first then the Holy Spirit will direct a person how they should present themselves with dress. I say if the Spirit doesn’t convict you then maybe it shouldn’t bother the rest of the Church, but what do I know.
Any way hope you like the new Church you found, and welcome home.
That’s exactly why there are so many Christian churches, let alone different faiths. Every one caters to its own group. The first church sounds like it’s traditional and family oriented. The second sounds untraditional and youth oriented. People stay in the church that’s comfortable for them and that gives them a sense of peace and fulfillment. That level of comfort can change over time as well.
Choosing a faith, a church or simply communing with nature is important for every individual. Finding something larger then yourself, whether it’s God, nature or the human race makes us part of a community.
This reminds me of a time we were looking for a new church in Los Angeles. We went to one well known church and loved the sermon and the singing. However, when we went over to the “new visitors” table, we stood there alone, then searched for a place to sign up for a small group. 4 months later we got a call that there might be a small group we would be interested in. We had, by that time, started attending a church that didn’t have a famous preacher, and the worship wasn’t nearly as good… but people spoke to us and were glad we were there.
Remember these moments and look back at them in a year, to remind yourself and the church you do join what it is like to be an outsider.
Never having been a pastor, I wonder what would happen if those of us with those experiences did a little “secret shopper” survey and let the leaders of the church know why we weren’t coming back???
My friend is a priest and he is very sociable, often to be seen in local pubs etc (he’s a musician too). He attracts a lot of “potential believers” whereas angering the traditional, older population. He also is marrying his friends which angers the local priest here
I think the Christianity is on some breaking point where these two types of believers are becoming more and more apparent. In the end, religion itself will prevail
Someone asked about the music at the second church…it was well done, quality, but I never really noticed it. The feel at those moments was decidedly focused on God, not on the people leading. Let’s see…there was a traditional hymn (Great is Thy Faithfulness), and a few songs that seemed like they may have been written by people in the group, very personal, intimate type things. The musical style was, um, normal sounding stuff like I might hear at someone’s house on Friday night, or while walking through the mall, without being flashy or attention-grabbing. It simply served as a vehicle for expressing thoughts and feelings. I like hard rock and blues, and it definitely wasn’t that, but it was very real and honest music that seemed approachable.
A bit of follow up on the “Porn Sunday” thing…I found out some more, and the Sunday in question was merely the beginning of a series on sexuality. The pastor there (not from either of the two churches mentioned in the essay, by the way) was beginning a discussion within the church of how to have a healthy, non-repressed or weird view of sex, sexuality, and gender within the boundaries of Christian tradition and doctrine…not from a modern subcultural standpoint, but from a “let’s look at the Bible and quit being stuffy and repressed in areas in which being free would be healthy and appropriate” sort of perspective.
It also appears there are a few other churches in the area doing something similar, kind of a joint venture thing.
Links here:
http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/related/255020
http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/blog/view/297
http://puresextucson.com/
I think you did not dig deep enough. The differences you described sound a lot like theological differences. Take for example you hair. The Bible says that “if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him” Some believe that it refers to the specific situation in Corinth and what Paul says is “don’t dress like a pimp”. Others believe that it should be up to each man to decide if he wishes to shame himself. Others again believe that all men should have short hair. If the first church holds the last position I understand why they looked at you that way.
Sveinung:
That may be possible, but seeing as I grew up in the first church’s denomination and never heard anything like what you describe, I doubt it.
In any case, neither church had any doctrinal statement about hair length or style of dress in their list of beliefs available on its website.
Many long years ago, when I was 14, my family moved from a small town to a major city in the same state. My father was known to be a music teacher and church choir director. In fact, the family at the time constituted a choir all by itself, as we all sang in parts.
So, when we got to the new city, we went church shopping. The first one we went to, we got ugly stares from the members of the congregation for singing hymns in 4-part harmony. We were asked not to come back. The second church, the children were “invited” to attend the children’s service in the basement. When my parents held out for us staying together, they were refused. We didn’t even bother to attend that church.
There are definitely churches that are more focused on image than on religion. They are the ones that you can tell by seeing the interaction of the congregation - they are there for the networking, not the faith.
I went to another church (with my father) to help out the choir (he’d just taken over as director, there) and was more warmly welcomed by everyone, even though I was just a kid, than in either of the two mainline churches described above. And this third church was considered to be a more elitist mainline church than the first 2 were.
Go figure.
Really enjoyed this article. It was also great to see some Christian influence showing up on Planet Ubuntu
We have had over 200 people read this page in the last 12 hours. That’s cool! Welcome, everyone.
One thing to take into account with the first church is that in large churches you’ll find more people who are kinda, I dunno, judgemental? In a large church, it’s a bit harder to keep track of them all. I’m a member of a large church (about 1600 members) and some are friendliest and most Christ-like people you’ll ever meet, while some others make me cringe. From the description alone, I can’t really say for sure how great the first church is, I’d have to visit a few times to make a conclusion, but I know there are some churches in which you might find more people who are less Christ-like than they should be than those who are.
Thanks for sharing this. I’m an American living in Germany. I love visiting the old and beautiful church buildings here. In the main church in the city where I live there’s a sign at the entrance that I like. It says, “You are entering a house of God. Please behave accordingly.” I really like that because it gives me a moment to pause and think, and to remember to be reverent. I think reverence is a virtue that is uncommon in the American Christian tradition, and we should not discount it. For many people, elevating your standards of dress from the weekly norm is a part of showing reverence in God’s house on the sabbath. It’s sad that this desire can sometimes lead to hostile glances to those whose dress might be a little out of place from the rest of the congregation.
Godspeed on your journey.
Very interesting article. I have been experiencing the same thing recently in my search for a new church. I usually dress up so most of the time they are much more casual than I am, but for me clothes don’t matter too much.
I am about to write a blog, maybe this week, about the benefits for a church to rent a weekly meeting place. I see it more and more. When I was over seas almost all churches simply rented space in schools, malls or hotels. After thinking about it I see that the building cost for most churches is 70-80% of the budget, and if it is in a rented hall they can cut that down to 20%-30%, leaving much more room for other things. Yes there are a ton of drawbacks also to not having a building, I am still thinking about where I sit on the issue.
Hope to meet up with ya soon.
Jason Dragon
http://blog.capitalactive.com
Great article and comments. I have had similar experiences along the way in my spiritual journey. Thanks for posting it.
This is interesting - I wonder, do the differences have to be good or bad? Maybe just different? Even so, I too would like to attend the second church and hope someday our church could have a similar reputation.
“Acceptance” as a criteria for a church makes me feel a bit uneasy. Obviously a church shouldn’t accept an adulterous pastor, but what other criteria can they set? Ultimately you get down to they should accept what they believe is right and reject what they believe is not OR reject what they believe is harmful. In either case, it doesn’t seem to help frame the criteria for what a good church is.
I’ve grown up at one church, so I’ve ended up being there all my life. Only recently have I realised how lucky I was to be at this church where it suits me really well. I’m pretty sure most people there find it a comfortable place to be, and they feel safe to just be who they are. The people there are the sort of people I enjoy hanging out with during the week and there is a strong desire for social justice.
I have a feeling though that the reason we have such sharp contrasts is to do with the modern/postmodern transition and the different ways of thinking about the world. So I would say that even though I don’t feel very comfortable in a church like the first one you described, I can imagine that there are lots of people who will find that the best place for them.
It reminds me a bit of the hardcore linux distros that some people seem to love, and others seem to not understand why anyone would want them
Interesting, Matt! One thing that screams out in your analysis is your distaste for people making vast judgments without digging deeper into the mindset of people or the context in which things are said or done. For instance, the pastor of the first church made a sweeping negative statement about “porn sunday” without doing any apparent research. He took his own preconceived ideas of how un-religious something like that sounds and his own discomfort with the idea, and projected his opinions onto that ministry, spinning them to his audience in a negative light. You took issue, which was well within your right. But Matt, you have done the very same thing here. Here’s one example: You made it very clear that your opinion of why the first church would have a nursery is that they don’t want to be disturbed by loud and distracting children, while the second church welcomes children and all people for that matter. As a stay-at-home mom of three, I have a much different perspective. When I put my kids in the church nursery, I hand them off to women who are sacrificing their own time to love my children well and share with them the love of Christ, so that I can have a few moments to worship the Lord and focus on Him without having to focus on my kids because I know they are being taken care of in a manner that I would take care of them. When I work a shift in the nursery, I count it a privilege to minister to other moms (who choose to put their kids in the nursery) and their kids in the same way they have ministered to me. I know the church that I attend puts a very high value on children, and it is through our focus on children’s ministries that literally hundreds of families have come to Christ or deepened their relationship with him. Hmm. This seems very Biblical to me. In your analysis you took your own perceptions and spun them in such a way to frame both churches and present them to your audience in the way they made you feel, which is fine. Free speech! It’s your blog! But in the spirit of intellectual dialogue, it seems to me dishonest to call out and discredit the first pastor for doing the same thing that you have done here.
Hi Cyndee. Thanks for the comments.
On the nursery thing, I was actually told that my kids were to go to a special location that was provided for children, both for their benefit and so they wouldn’t be a disruption. I didn’t assume that. This is the part that irritated me.
In fairness, I could and probably should have mentioned that the people working in the children’s program were kind, friendly, and my kids liked them. They were giving freely of their time (I presume, I don’t think they were being paid) and I in no way intended for it to sound the least bit disparaging toward them.
I also did not mention which church had free food and a staff member who invited me to go out for coffee.
I didn’t mention that one church has a gymnasium that my kids would have loved, while the other was renting an older facility without any amenities.
I mentioned what I did, because it stood out to me and seemed important for the comparison. I think I was fair, accurate, and balanced, although I could have done a better job of detailing what I just said in my first two paragraphs of this response.